Martin Guitar's Artist CEO | Always Lifting Ep.9

Today’s guest is Thomas Ripsam, CEO of C.F. Martin & Company, the legendary guitar maker founded in 1833 and revered by musicians worldwide. As Martin’s first non-family CEO, Thomas shares what it takes to honor nearly 200 years of history while still pushing the brand forward.

In this conversation, we talk about:
• Leading through change while protecting what makes a brand special
• Craft, creativity, and the role of the artist in leadership
• Culture, community, and building teams that stay connected
• Curiosity, learning, and staying relevant in a fast-moving world
• Sustainability and the future of making

Thomas is a reminder that great leadership is not only strategy. It is imagination, intention, and heart.
Subscribe for more episodes of Always Lifting.

To learn more about Martin Guitars, check out https://www.martinguitar.com/
Check out their playlists on https://open.spotify.com/album/2kLoVVEePr57PFAeulX4f7?si=zPctb95QREyEXsPstkoZAQ
Connect with Thomas on https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-ripsam/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Today's guest leads one of the most iconic legacy brands in the world, Martin Guitar. And he leads with heart, creativity, and a deep love for the craft. Thomas Ripsham is the CEO of CF Martin Company, a family business that's been making guitar since 1833. And they are revered by musicians across the globe. Thomas is a leader who understands that to guide a legacy brand, you must both honor its history and dream boldly into its future. What I admire most is that Thomas is not only a leader, he is an artist. Thomas, welcome to Always Lifting.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Hey Karen, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

You're very welcome here. How are you? And um uh yeah, let's let's get into some good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Absolutely. All good. Uh just coming off Thanksgiving and heading into the next holiday soon. But uh it's a busy period for us. So I can't do it. But all good. All great, yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Imagine. Well, you're as I mentioned in the beginning, you know, you're a passionate artist, you're a guitar player, and now you're the CEO of Martin Guitar, a legendary guitar company. Whoa, like coolest gig ever. How how did you find yourself on this path?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Well, I always say when I was born, I already knew one day I would be the CEO of Martin Guitar. No, I uh grew up in Germany and uh you know come from a pretty humble uh home. Uh money was tight. Uh our parents, they they struggled a little bit with the marriage. Um but I had several outlets, I think, from my childhood that uh kind of kept me sane, but also uh opened my interest in experiencing the world. And those outlets were music, art, reading, outdoors, nature, uh, and and really started early. And and the trigger for music was my dad's uh singles collection. And you know, one of the singles I remember was uh Elvis Presley playing uh guitar, his Martin Acoustic guitar, and Scottymore, his uh electric guitar. And that was when I was a child listening to that music. And I think from then on, uh music became really important. The guitar became my favorite instrument. I started to learn when I was in my teens. But you know, growing up in a humble home, uh one thing that was also important for me was um I knew I had to earn my living, right? And so I did an education in business. Uh, did college two years in England, two years in Germany, um, and then after college had a 25-year career in consulting. I think I remember seeing a lot of strategy and strategy consulting, working with uh consumer goods companies, retail tech all over the world. Um but in parallel, you know, my whole music passion was always uh the other big part of me and and my passion for art as well. And so before Martin, I I had a a time in my life when I more actively thought about hey, I I love business and I love the problem solving that comes with consulting, but I also love the creative side, the pat you know, music, arts, and I want to find something where I can bring those two things together. And you know, magically the Martin opportunity surfaced, and um, you know, I got involved in the process and things worked out, and it was like a dream come true. I mean, it literally it's like bringing my two halves together into what I do now. And and the the third piece about Martin, other than it's music and I love music, it's business, I love business, was I love to work with companies where people and the culture are the center of everything. And that's exactly what Martin is, right? I mean, it's all the people. Um, so it's it's it's incredibly humbling uh for me to be part of Martin and in this role as the first outside CEO. Um and when I think about it, uh I have to kind of you know pinch myself. It's amazing. It is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

I I love uh th you know three things for you coming together and lining up. I think it's it's beautiful. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

It's almost like it was it was meant to happen. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

That's that's amazing. And and then as you mentioned, you're the I think the first non-family CEO for Martin Guitar.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah. So Martin Guitar is a is a sixth generation, still family-owned business, uh almost 200 years old now, originally from Germany, but they they set up their business in the US in 1833, like you mentioned, and um yeah, always run by family members. Um and in 2021, Chris Martin, who had been the CEO for 35 years, um and uh primary owner of the business, uh announced his retirement, move into the executive chairman role. Um they have a daughter, but the daughter was not old enough to take over. So um that's why they decided to bring somebody in from the outside.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Exciting. So you're this uh steward, and um I think it sounds like you take the responsibility of managing this, I think what is it like 190 plus years? You're almost at 200 years.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yep, yeah, almost 200.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Which is fantastic. Um being the steward of that and and stepping in and I think it's uh it is a really big deal to to help a family in that way and and you probably are providing some really unique new perspectives, I would think, too.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Right, right. So um, you know, at at Martin we do have this phrase and I think it's a beautiful phrase. It's one foot in the past, one foot in the future. Um because the past is such an important part of what the brand is all about. Um but as you know, if you don't stay in the today and think about tomorrow, um you're not gonna stay relevant and and you're not gonna be successful. You know, and and in my consulting career I worked with a lot of companies that had a long history, and I've seen I've seen different paths, right? Where companies they they lost kind of their their way, others continuously evolved. So I'm so I think with that background, you know, I I definitely think about this phrase one foot in the past and one foot in the future every day, right? Because we can't lose either one in moving forward um without risking to to lose this special sauce, but also the success that uh that the Martin company has experienced, right? Throughout throughout almost 200 years with some booms and some uh tough times, but but always able to move with the times. And today, you know, I mean last year we had the best year in the history of the company, right? And and that's that's uh to continuous build. Um and I think it's exciting. And and the other thing to mention uh not to to talk too much about it, but the other thing that excited me about the role was that the music industry is changing at all levels. Yeah. Uh big change, right? And so you simply cannot rely on your laurels and um and just look back. Um we really do have to evolve, and that's that's a lot of the work we are focused on right now.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Exciting. It's totally the ability to preserve the soul of the business and this amazing story. I love I think a lot of our role um as CEOs and and and and businesses in general, we have to tell the story of our business, make it unique so it stands out, but then also attracting employees, keeping them motivated, having that beautiful purpose that we get inspired to go to work every day. It's it's so important. Uh and you're doing a great job of pulling all of those pieces together. And I if I go back to this one foot in the past, one foot in the future, we were talking a little earlier. I told you my husband, I told him I was gonna be speaking with you today. And he was like, oh, this is so cool. And he's a furniture maker. And he's like, I wonder, you know, ask him about his jigs. Does he have fixtures that are older than I am that they're using? And and you had a really great share, share the you know, a little bit about how you're looking at the past with some of uh what how you make your product and how you're moving into new technology. And I thought that was a great ex uh example of doing that on the manufacturing floor, right? Or in your processes.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Yeah. Uh totally. Um I mean Martin really started with uh you know handcrafted guitars that uh involve tools but basic tools, right? Fixtures and stuff like that. Um but but over the 200 years, um when you look at how the craftsmanship evolved, um the company always maintained the human touch but uh also looked at ways to um to improve how we manufacture um and how we do it at scale, right? So just to give give you an idea, the company uh today manufactures around 130 to 140,000 guitars every year. Right. And there are two locations, one in Nazareth uh and one in Mexico in the north of Mexico. And so to be able to make these guitars, this quantity and the quality at scale. Um That's a thing. Right. It it it's just hard if you want to do that all solely with people, right, and people's work. So the idea of technology, I think, has been around for a long time with Martin. Um way before me, they introduced robotics for polishing, for example. Polishing is a big part. Um we have CNC machines, right? We have a sawmill. So I mean, we have different things. We have a robot that uh runs around um in in our factory that you actually will see usually when you're on a tour, you may see the robot uh delivering parts to deliver. Delivering parts, yeah. And so so it it's an integral part of how we think about um what we do and how we do it. Um and it's a it's a continuous evolution, right? And um so yes, we still have some old fixtures. Um there is a in our machine room, there is a drying wheel that basically has uh we still use it sometimes for gluing backs together. Um and it's literally like like a wheel where the backs are stacked like this and then it dries. And that's very old. But um we also have uh, as I mentioned, robotics and you know, AI is a big topic for us also now, and and it's a topic that covers all aspects of the business.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Aaron Powell So interesting. Right. And I'm sure there's ways to keep that acoustic quality and and and all of the craftsmanship and uh but yet making sure you're not missing something, right? Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

And you know technology for us, um it's it's not uh the the goal is not to replace the human work right uh categorically. The goal is really to think about the parts of the the process um where frankly it's highly repetitive. Uh it might be ergonomically. Yeah, if we think about polishing, right? That's definitely one that is repetitive. Yeah, exactly. Uh obviously efficiency, efficiency where we can use machinery or technology, um but then also being very clear about where does the the human touch uh really uh make the difference, right? And so for example, in our guitars, I mean I have a guitar here, but you know, this is the headstock. I don't know whether people can see it, but we have these inlays in our guitars, in the headstock, in the fingerboard, the rosette around the sound hall. And uh a lot of these things are still inlaid by hand. Um it's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Yeah, and and so And this is your guitar you brought with us today.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

This guitar is actually one that I designed, yeah. Uh so Chris Martin, he uh introduced a series when he was still the CEO that was about um a CEO-designed guitar that allows the CEO to experiment with, you know, either different materials or different shapes or uh different different aesthetics, uh sometimes different sounds. And so when I became the CEO um two years ago, he or three years ago was actually my first CEO guitar that I designed, um he basically said, Well, you're the CEO now, why don't you have a go at it? And so I designed that first, my first CEO guitar, and it was pretty traditional, used a lot of vintage features. This is my second CEO guitar. We introduced it uh earlier this year at the NAM trade show, uh, which is uh a global big trade show for us. And so for this guitar, I wanted to do something completely different, right? Um and what's different? Um color. So beautiful color. So we we don't really use a lot of colors um except through our custom shop. We have a custom shop where uh dealers, distributors, or or artists can spec their own designs, right? So colors come in there sometimes. I think colors are incredible uh source of uh of uh the part for a guitar. And so I wanted to do something with colors. This is a color that we came up with. We experimented a lot. I knew it should be blue. Um but what kind of blue? Well, because I I like the color blue. Inspired by blue. So yeah, I love the color, but it had to be it it had to look uh classy and good. And so you know we came up eventually with this color. It's called New Horizons Burst. It has this is what we call a burst uh uh feature, which is basically the shading towards the edges. Um I also wanted to experiment with different materials. So this is German white oak. Okay. And uh you don't see a lot of guitars out there with oak in general. Um and the fact that we had German white oak, and as a German, you know, to me there was a nice touch.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

I love that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Um but and then you know I had to figure out what kind of size guitar I love, uh this type of size, which is a quad we call it a quadruple O uh size. And so it had all these pieces, but the key was also we needed to make sure it sounds good, right? And frankly, with Oak, the M style, the quadruple O size, uh and some of those things, we we didn't quite know yet how it actually would sound, but it it sounds really good. And um so this is the CEO 11, because it's 11 in the series.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

And I saw that you have this beautiful inside of it, a little marking that designates it's CO11. There's a couple signatures inside of there. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

So this is limited to 1111. So it's CEO 11, 1111, limited to that. It's hand signed, each of them is hand signed by me. And uh so yeah, it it it all came together. And then the other thing I always like to I know you're very interested in storytelling, right? So that there's always the question, what's the story about the guitar and and how do you talk about it? And obviously there are the aesthetics, there's the tone, but then I also started to do some research into the number 11. Is there something specific about the number 11? And I figured out in numerology, there is this concept of master numbers. And master numbers come with special meaning and powers. The number 11 stands for inspiration, enlightenment, and uh and yeah. And so I thought about okay, so what can we do about this guitar to to uh also communicate the enlightenment or inspiration part? And so we use this uh logo, this this image, which is actually the Buddhist symbol for the path to enlightenment. So you literally this uh represents the path to enlightenment.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

And obviously it all points to Martin. So Martin in the end leads to enlightenment. So that's the DO11.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Wonderful. Well, and and um you know, I know you have actually produced your own album, right? And I was listening to some of your music this morning in the last several days, which feels like inspired by you know this 11 and this concept of enlightenment there. I really enjoyed it. How does that all play into this too? Was that part of the journey of the guitar? Just something you've tr you again, I certainly you're learning about your you use your product, you're learning about your product, learning about how to go and then I I just love the whole circular vibe of it all.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Totally. Well, I think the whole um creating music, songwriting, and and recording part, it's something I've loved for a long time. Um and you know, it's obviously connected to the instruments, but um I think it's it's on its own journey, right? So and and you listened to the uh uh New Horizons album.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

And Seeds. Seeds of Imagination. That's my band. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Seeds of Imagination.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

No, it's um it it's appropriate that I immediately felt a uh great vibe and connection with you. I l I love this idea uh and I like to talk more about imagination, but the seeds and gardening and growing and all of it just feel so so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

But but that album, um you know, if you actually listen to it, there is no acoustic guitar on it.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

And that was intentional, right? Because the other two albums or three that you find on the streaming platforms, they all had acoustic they're heavily acoustic guitar influenced.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

And so um you know, for me, what I love about creativity and and art and music is first of all, you can do whatever you want. Right. But but for me, what excites me is every new thing has to have uh has to have some intention behind it. Right. And um and that's where it gets a little bit hard because with music and instruments and everything that's at your disposal nowadays, you literally can do whatever you want. But how do you pick something that is meaningful to you um and hopefully to other people as well? But you know, so so the inspiration for that last album was okay, I I had done acoustic uh centric music. I wanted to do something that's not acoustic, right? And so that's so it's more electronic, it has more rhythm, it's more rhythm-based. But I also sang on the other albums. There's no singing on this album. Oh, I have to go back. I gotta I'm gonna have to listen to it. Yeah and what's the theme actually behind the the album is I was thinking about the music as music for a movie. Movie about a journey, right, that somebody goes through. And so the first song is called Farewell. Right? It's basically this idea of a departure. And then, I mean, I didn't want to prescribe what the movie would be about, other than there's a journey aspect. So whoever listens to it, you should listen to it thinking about a journey.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Or maybe one of your own journeys, and think about some different uh uh parts or situations or stops along, right? A trip you did, and then think about these songs. To me, that that's what made these songs come to life, right? Because I thought about trips I had done and um and some of the things that that I would emotionally connect to. Uh anyway. So that's awesome. I can totally get that.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yeah, I can totally get that vibe from from that, from what I was listening to. And I love the the intentionality you have in in that again, storytelling through your music as well. Uh and then do you have a process of how you get inspired to do something like that? Or is it more you're just sort of like feeling it?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And yeah, it's I get inspired by, you know, it could be sounds I hear, uh uh things I experience, uh books I read. Um it's it's different different inspirations and sources. Um but but usually I need to be in in a period where I get creative, right? It's it's I can't do it ongoing. It just doesn't work. I have to be in the zone. Um because when I start something, and that's maybe also part of Thomas, when I start something, I don't like it to just linger and linger and linger and go on. I like to finish it. And so and once you start to get into it, I mean you know it, you do a lot of different things, right? Like book writing and other stuff. Um it's it it really requires a lot of focus. R it's hard work and it's it kind of it's it's very consuming. Right. There is no it's not not a work day or half a workday or two hours here. It's it's a constant because you right.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

And you're trying to find that balance between enjoying the process and then uh having it become work, which is takes away from the process, right? Like sort of keeping it in the space. Is there is there anything you do to like a practice you have of carving out this this creative space, this creative ability to have you know zone time or even best. CEOs, are we could we can be busy all the time if we want to, if we don't put boundaries around it. What are some of the things that you do to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Well, I think my I I definitely carve out time for the things that matter to me, right? My family matters a ton. Love that. And I carve out we have four kids. Um uh my wife and I, Kathleen, she's she's actually half American, half is Venezuelan. We have been married for uh 30 years, four kids, um multi-cultured backgrounds, and so it's an important part. Music, of course, is an important part. Uh reading, and I've learned if you don't make the time, right? There are always enough reasons that it won't happen. So so I do make time and um I'm also a big believer in in you know kind of the work as a CEO. Often it's very, very intense. And you do need you do need something that gives you the balance, kind of the mental balance. And and so I meditate. I use things like the you know, art or music, like painting. To me, it's like meditation. Uh because it it draws you into something that's in the end, it's actually quite simple.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Is there a type of meditation? You like to I'm a meditator as well. Is there a type of meditation you you do or is it?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

I mean it's mainly breathing. Okay. Uh I use uh an app called Calm. Okay, yeah, I've heard of that. I use that every day, and uh and I never never really crack the the intent of uh not thinking, right? Or just letting things go. But but I I think it's it's not a lot of time every day, but it it is time that I always look forward to, and it's it's kind of my time. And I always do it in the morning. It's actually the first thing I do when I get up in the morning, it's I spend time to meditate, and uh it sets you up for the day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

We're the same elk. I meditate, I do I practice TM meditation, transcendental meditation. Um not always they have you they want you to do it twice a day. I not always get about twice a day. Pretty, pretty good. But the morning, it's like a requirement. Like it's if I don't do it, I miss it. And I don't know what, you know, I know there's so much science that's even unfolding more recently too about how meditation is so good for us and and what it's doing for our brains and and I uh the ripple effects it has in our life. But it yeah, I feel like it's I don't I don't drink anymore, but I feel like it's like a glass of wine in the morning that like keeps me like calm and just kind of gets that vibe going for the day and it holds for a while. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

No, it's uh I find it very useful and and it's good good for my own sanity.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yes. Yes, I totally appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Um But but uh maybe one thing to mention about you know the creative side, kind of the making music, creating music, and and to me there there is a link to business, and and it's uh you know, I thought about what what's the connection between consulting and uh art or or music, right? And or and to me, what it actually was is for both, you actually need a few things for it to work, right? You need to have a vision, uh, you need to ultimately break down the vision in lots of details, but those details all have to connect back to the vision. Uh you have to execute, but I think you also have to know what good looks like, right? And so, and if you think about business, uh that's that's what I think about a lot, right? What's our vision? We have always so much going on uh at Martin, and you know, does it all connect, right? And it is it um so the execution part, you have to be able to execute, but but I think the other thing you also need to know is what what does good look really look like? And that gets back to if you look at today versus two, three, five years from now, I think good will look very different, right? Three, five years from what good looks like today. And and as a leader, I think um you need to kind of know that and you need to inspire your your leadership team right to to have that kind of mindset. Um and that's work. Yeah. That doesn't it doesn't just come naturally.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

In that context, it when you're saying what does good look like, is it I mean maybe a doll. Um what good looks like for the company's success versus what good looks like for like music is changing and or the way I mean I guess AI probably is gonna affect your industry. I didn't I wasn't even thinking about that in the world of making music. And totally. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Well, I think um, you know, if you look at any industry that a business is part of, there are some intrinsic things that you need to be able to do just to to compete. Right. Um, but then to me what's important, and and that's how I grew up in terms of my strategy background, um you know, you really need to think about what's unique about you. Right. And and I think a lot of companies struggle with that. And um kind of the way I grew up, how to get to that is that when you look at some companies, especially companies that have been around for a while, um what gives them the ability to be unique is the capabilities they have and how they apply them. Right. So in our case it might be craftsmanship. Um that is you could say, well, every guitar manufacturer has craftsmanship. But um when you look at what we can do at scale, um I mean we we create guitars that may cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then we create guitars that may cost a few hundred dollars, right? And there are a lot of price points and models and and um that requires not just the craftsmanship, but also to be able to deal with complexity and all that.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

So so it's so there's a capability behind that that you can't just say, well, I'm gonna put it in place and then I have it, right? Because it actually takes a long time to get there. And and that's kind of how I think about what makes you unique is what do I do better than anybody else out there. Right. So that's that's uh we used to call it in the consulting world capabilities-driven strategy. Uh I'm a big believer in that. And then the other thing is you know, uh once you know what's unique about you, uh if you think about it, you invest a dollar. Where do you invest it? Do you invest it in all the latest paths, or do you actually invest it in the thing you know is unique about you? And my belief is you need to continue to invest in the things that give you the advantage, right? And and that's how you further and further and further um your uniqueness. And and that's important. Your question also tied to I mean, how do you know what good looks like? Um, I mean, I think it comes back to understanding your stakeholders, right? In in our case, we have a family, it's a family-owned business, and there are certain needs and and expectations. Uh, some are very business focused, others might not be so business focused. There might be other needs. Um that's important for Martin. Community has always been a very important stakeholder, employees, of course, right? And then consumers, the players. So so really understanding the stakeholders and and understanding how will they perceive value, right, and and whether you meet their expectations, I think that's really important. And then even though I love to create to be creative and try to come up with a new solution for everything, you know, not everything requires a new solution, right? So there are things that frankly you can look at how some companies do finance or HR, and you don't need to think about something um very innovative to immediately know, well, they do most of their work manual where technology actually should cover that, and they should rather spend their time on actually engaging with their employees and that kind of stuff. Um so for some of these things, you with experience you will know what good looks like. For some areas where there is a lot of change, right, and and AI is a good example, um where at this point it it's not just hype. It is happening, and it's happening at all levels, uh including individuals and how they use AI in their own life. So so that's something that is so fast-paced, uh is very disruptive. And uh there's a lot of experimentation, right? So you don't necessarily know what that looks like. So but that's where you I think you need to make sure that you have an open mind, you learn and um and figure out how do we make AI part of ourselves without giving ourselves over to AI.

unknown 31:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Well it sounds like the I don't want to talk a little bit about reading, but it's like the sci-fi books, right? Like how do we not you know lose ourselves to the to the AI that are isn't so many. And it sounds too like I mean, this advice about finding out you know what is unique about what you do is so great for for anyone listening and makes me very reflective on you know what we're trying to do at American Crane and what I'm always thinking about. And I love this kind of curiosity that you have on being curious and pulling the threads and learning more, especially about something. I mean, AI is sort of this easy one to pull out because it's right in front of just about everybody. Right. You can we can do that with other things too, like just pulling on the threads and being curious. Um and I think we have to we have to be curious as leaders.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

I think you have to be very curious. Right. And and I think we have to um we have to understand our context very well to to figure out how do we how do we create an environment where people naturally become curious. And the reason why I'm saying is with long kind of uh companies with a long history, right, the the the risk is sometimes that people think because we've been around for so long, everything we do is the way it has to get done. Um right, and so so how do you get out of that mindset, right? At Martin, uh a couple of years ago, we introduced something which is uh it sounds so trivial, but uh but we thought it we actually experienced uh quite a shift, and that was um we introduced a consumer moment. So at every meeting, kind of management meeting, somebody will talk about uh bring a consumer moment, right? And it can be a a post that a consumer posted on Instagram, or it could be um a visitor that visits us and shares a story about themselves, right? And and um so we introduced that. It was interesting in the beginning, uh all the examples were positive examples, right? All good, right? Always Martin is great, Martin is the best, blah, blah, blah. And so we said, well, is that are there no bad kind of feedback examples or or things like that? And so then people were looking more for a balanced view, right? And so of course they are there are good and bad examples, but the the point we wanted to make as management is you know, bad examples are not bad, right? They're they're learning moments for us. And um, but but the trigger was really to say, well, should we really only go after good examples? Or aren't there also other examples? Right. And that's to me the curiosity where you observe something in your company and you start to ask questions, um, and that's your curious mind. And those questions sometimes are they they are the things that can move you forward big time.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Right? Those it those frustration moments or or different pieces or or ch or challenges, or you said the consumer moments that or customer moments. I love that. I might have to incorporate that into what we do at American Crane. I think that's really a great, a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Or the other thing, it's just another cultural thing at Martin that was really interesting was, you know, because Martin uh has been a family business for so long. Um we have lots of situations where multiple generations of coworkers worked and work in the company. You may have somebody whose parents or grandparents worked there. Um and that created this sense of, well, we're all part of the family, right? Um and during COVID, during the pandemic, we hired a lot of new people because interestingly, um the guitar industry actually experienced the boom. Everybody was probably learning at home and picking up an instrument or spending more. Um and so we needed to scale up the business, um, and we hired people. And so you had this mix of tenured, right, and in some cases highly tenured part of our workforce, and then some brand new people. And interestingly, uh family, the word family came up a lot. Um, and so we started to ask, so when you're kind of uh a recent joiner, what does family mean to you? Right? And they said, well, it's kind of hard to be become part of it, right? And then of course the more tenured folks, they said, well, family, right? And and two different ways of of actually referring to family.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Not all families function well, right? There's it's it's a difficult word.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Exactly, exactly. But but um there was a common theme around it, right? I mean, because people know what family means. I mean, exactly what you say. Um, you know, the different members in the family, and they're the dynamics are not always perfect, but the family aspect is you you take care of each other and you care for each other. But to us, there was a learning moment, right, that that we need to make sure that people who recently joined, they feel part of a family, and it we make it easy for them to become that.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Aaron Powell Do you have any best practices that you're doing for onboarding or you know, um I'm always interested because I believe in you know also CEOs, culture is our responsibility. It is how do we foster and keep keep a great culture great and going on? Are there any tips or tricks that you have that have worked or that you've you've implemented recently?

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Yeah, um I mean we do spend a lot of time on onboarding, right? And um it's it's the onboarding in our case covers uh really the the different aspects of what Martin is all about, right? The history, um, our products.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Um I want to say, by the way, you have such a wonderful tour of your facility. So anybody who's in the NASDAQ there, they should if should come and check it out. I feel like you tell that story for external, which I imagine you can use for onboarding as well. I mean, so beautifully, the history.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I think the tours are are great. Uh it's a great experience. Um we do factory tours, museum tours, and we also have a store. Um and so uh yeah, it and and when people see how these guitars are made, I I think uh they appreciate why some of our guitars also cost quite a bit. They're not uh cheap instruments, but it comes from you know what goes into making the guitars. So yeah. But in terms of onboarding, yeah. So so in the beginning, really important to to learn about the company, but also to get to meet people, right? And and um I mean people usually they may join a department, but we uh really love to get people exposed to different parts of the business in terms of other teams and individuals. Um we talk a lot a lot about culture and um you know we also have mentorship. That's great. Yeah. So so we have different ways, um, but it's it is really important to focus on because uh needs of the workforce have changed. We have now four uh five different generations, workforce generations, uh in the business, and each generation has its own needs. And so yeah, it it's it's important to to be to have a good pulse on what's going on with with our people and what's on their minds. We have, you know, I had uh once a month I invite something like 10 or 12 people from all over the the uh business, uh different levels, different departments into an hour, right? Where part of it is is a theme. I may talk about some things, uh, but I'm I'm really curious what they want to talk about. We have stand-up meetings, you know, more within departments, weekly stand-up meetings, and uh our executives uh are mandated, it's mandatory for them to join some of the stand-up meetings, not just in their own areas, but in other areas as well. So this whole cross right um breaking down silos, or keeping it, keeping from silos happening, cross pollinating.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

I think that's awesome. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

So we're trying to do as much as we can there uh without disrupting disrupting the business too much.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Well, and culture is this labor of love, right? It's uh and it's a continuous process. That's I always like to say it's like gardening. You can't stop. Like you you can do it, you'll get some harvest, but you have to be planting and tilling and weeding and watering, and it just you have to kind of keep keep going very intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Keep going, and um you know, there's always this talk about mindsets and then behaviors. I I firmly believe in uh focusing on behaviors, right? And that changes your mindsets. Um yeah, we we focus a lot on on culture, we talk a lot about um culture in the context of our strategy and the direction and what's going on in the world, and um but we also try to make sure we don't just do too many new things around culture, right? So it's it's it's a few behaviors at a time, like the consumer moment, which was all about let's let's get a better understanding what uh what's going on with our consumers. Simple, right? And and um and the other thing that was important was that that consumer moment is not just relevant for our sales people or our marketing people. Um it's also important for our people in legal or in right. Yeah. We want them to think about that as well and understand ultimately, whatever we do, it has to make sense for somebody that wants to create music or pick up an instrument, and we want to be that choice.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

You're you talk about you talked before about human touch and and um where you're touching your products, and I feel like this is you're actually creating that human touch of who are the end users and and bridging that gap. So it just makes everything probably more effective and ownership, accountability, pride, I would think, as well.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Yep, yeah, absolutely. And um, you know, our production uh is largely organized by uh functional departments, right, that cover a step in the process or or steps in the process. Um and a lot of the folks will work on these steps. They don't work on the whole guitar. Right. Right. So so it's even more important for them to understand, well, uh ultimately where does this all end up and what am I contributing? Um that's why yeah, we we try to bring that into kind of your everyday. That's great. That you don't lose sight of that.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Well, I want to pivot to another topic before we run out of time today. And one thing that I thought was so fun when we actually met for the first time was we ended up talking about books and reading. And I think we were talking about fiction. And and I have this belief that really you need to read fiction as well as what I'll call self-help or the business books, which I definitely read and listen to. But it is fiction that can teach you so much. We learn by stories, right? We're talking about storytelling for brands and and for your for your company, which is basically teaching people and learning what what you're doing and why what's the value. So but we also we so we're learning that way, but we're also learning, we can learn leadership skills, we can learn behaviors, how best to our brain is made for this. And so I don't know what if you have any thoughts around reading fiction and what what kind of fiction are you into and how that helps us dream up the future.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Um I'm I read all kinds of books. Um of the things you mentioned, right? Self-help, uh nonfiction, business books for sure. Uh but I also like fiction books and uh and fiction, I love adventure stories. Uh and interestingly, um I love stories that have this journey aspect. It's it's somehow when I reflect on a lot of things in my life, um, even where I come from, the small you know village in the south of Germany, and now I live here in the States, and I'm married to uh uh somebody half American, half Venice, it's all there's there's this move moving, right? The journey aspect. And so I love biographies, I love uh fiction stories, you know, like Hornblower or uh the um Master and Commander, that series with with uh Aubrey and and Maturin. So Adventure, I love. I think we talked about uh Tolkien when we had our talk together, uh, which is a an annual. Reading ritual for me. I still read it every time. Yes. And we also watch the movies with the kids, and by now we know every phrase in the movies. But um yeah, I to me um you know we we know so much, but but fiction stories I think they they take you to a different uh horizon, into a different horizon. Or I I often love to use the phrase art of the possible. Um and because to me the art of the possible it's it's something that that I always see a frontier that I'm close to. And then I have to remind myself, you know, that the art of the possible goes way beyond what I naturally would think about. And that opens so much. Opens so much for me. Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

It's almost exercising our imagination and and thinking and and getting used to that, um, which I think you do beautifully in so many other areas as well, with the music, which you talked about journey with your music, but it teaches us to kind of think outside of our constraints of where our mind takes us. And that's I think super valuable when dreaming up the futures in life. And also um values. And I I love this idea that you say about journey. I one of my favorite phrases is um journey before destination. You know, sometimes it's that journey that is the beautiful part.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

And that's what it's all about, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:23

We get so sometimes we get so focused on the end, we'd miss the miss the beautiful, beautiful part in between.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, and recently I've uh forced myself to pick up kind of uh physical books again. Uh because I I believe when you read digital books, um you read differently than when you actually have a physical book uh in your hand, and uh and I also think it helps you to focus more. Same with same with uh music, you know. I I uh I'm into vinyls again and uh I just love the idea of uh picking an album, uh a vinyl album that's physical, yeah, and uh you you're stuck with it, right? Because you can't just uh listen quickly and then flip to the next one, flip to the next one, flip. So there's something about um being in the moment but also uh uh removing all these options.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

Yeah. Maybe a slowdown.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Right. And and I do think you back to books, you you process differently if you read something, you know, having a book in your hand um versus a digital book.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Beautifully said. Yeah, beautifully said. If you look into the future now, just to kind of wrap us all up, like okay, so it's almost 200 years now.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

I mean like the next two weeks or so?

SPEAKER_00 46:45

No, no, no, no, you gotta push your mind. We just talked about reading and dreaming of it. You know, what's it what's in store for Martin Guitar in the next you know 50 or the next 200 years? Anything stand out in your mind?

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Well, um I think next 200 years, that's such a time horizon. It is a time that is a big time horizon. Impossible to really imagine what things will look like. But I think for Martin, um you know, evolution has always been important. Uh going with the times, but knowing who you are is always important. Uh we are in a in our industry, and there are certain things that we need to do really well, right? So our products and the quality of our products uh are really important. Our connection with artists, really important, our connection with consumers and players, offline and online, really important, right? So and so over the next uh few years uh we know where we need to continue to evolve. Um and it's it's a step at a time. And um so you know, little things that over time, when you look back, actually uh create create the future.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

And it comes back to this phrase that you've said before, one one foot in the past and one foot in the future, right? Like those honoring both sides and knowing that balance of how to shift. Um it sounds like you're set up for great.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

One example, one one area we haven't talked about, but but that ties to your question is is sustainability, right? And and I mean with us, with our uh instruments, traditionally we've used organic materials, woods, right? Really important. They are sourced from all over the world. And some of those tone woods uh become harder to source, more expensive to source, rarer, more regulated. And so uh Martin has been on this path to look for alternatives for decades. We were actually the first guitar manufacturer to adopt uh a formal environmental policy, uh responsible sourcing, those kind of things. But uh that's certainly an area where um we don't take it slowly, right? Because um I think the future is here and and it's it's uh creating more and more pressure to look for alternatives to also better utilize the the materials that we have used, right? So ebony is a good example, like this is an ebony fingerboard here on the black fingerboard. And um traditionally a lot of the guitar manufacturers um only used a portion of the ebony wood, which was the black wood, but but the the the tree actually has different colors. Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Um smart, so you're using more of the resource you have.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

So now we're using more of the ebony, right? Not just the black part, even though this fingerboard is black. Um we also have used alternatives to ebony, it's called rich light, um, also for quite a while. So uh I think sustainability, especially especially environmental sustainability, that part uh is something where I think Martin has been quite a bit on the forefront, and uh I think we continue to push the envelope there because we have to.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Yeah. I'm sure it speaks to your uh the people who love your your products, brands, and guitars.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

I mean I'm sure they that it just adds to that beautiful story and that's uh people who love Martin, they probably would love to have more a foot in the past with when it comes to tradition. But um I also I'm a firm believer, right, if you think about the entire player base, um, especially the younger ones, um I think the the how responsible you are with the environment is becoming more and more important. So So yes, you have to cater to tradition, but um you also need to look for opportunities to to create alternatives, right? And also educate people out there uh on what the reality is.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

So interesting. So I have I have one question for you. So you came in here today. I had a few um of our staff with Starstruck of uh as I mentioned before about Martin Guitar and so excited. Is there any fun story now that you've you know um been in your role um of any moment that you've had where it was just the coolest thing that you saw that Martin was a part of uh that just you were like, oh, this is I don't know, it's something fun.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Um it happens every day when we imagine new products. Um, you know, I always think, am I really sitting here and you know participating in these discussions? It's that artists, I love to connect with artists, and um, you know, earlier this year we opened a showroom in LA, and um we are in a in an area, it's called center staging, where um bands prepare for their tours, and then we have a showroom. And so um we had this one day where I was visiting, and uh we heard that Paul McCartney may stop by. And so we had a certain window when it might happen, and uh it didn't happen. And uh about an hour later or so uh I was talking to another artist who was also in the showroom, and I see uh Paul McCartney and his manager walk into the showroom, and that is just something that doesn't happen easily. But um I mean with somebody like Paul McCartney uh to to be able to spend some time uh together, that was just magical. It's awesome. And yeah, and that was that was that was really awesome. It was super cool.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Fantastic. Um thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Thank you so much for sharing your story and for the remarkable way that you're lifting you know Martin into the next generation and it's next chapter, but the people and to the next chapter and all of the great insights on how you live your life, which I so appreciate. And you really remind us that leadership isn't only strategy, it's soul. Um, creativity, reading, artistic expressions, they're they aren't hobbies, they're engines of possibilities. And thank you so much for coming today.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Thanks, Karen. That was fun. Thank you.

unknown 52:54

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Thomas comes off much more like an artist than your typical CEO. And I believe that's what makes his leadership unique. He turned his passion into a reality, and I think the Martin Guitar brand is in good hands while Thomas is plucking the strings. To find out more about Thomas and the Martin Guitar Company, see the show notes below. And remember to always lift.